Curse

Red Sonya · Aug 20, 2005, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Today for funzies I decided to try "Thirsty River" with henchies, and amazingly I won with them the very first try.

Then I decide to help some humans out and in the two successive human groups I played in we lost both of them. lol Humans do not listen, henchies follow your every order. I couldn't get the humans on the last battle to pull the mobs away from the door, and I couldn't get them all to attack the priest and kill him before the res timer reached the two minute mark in both of them. They died successively over and over, I rezzed the entire team in one of them since I am smart enough to bring a hard rez instead of a rez sig or no rez at all, and they still wouldn't listen and we still lost.

One thing for sure is (the human group) 2 rangers, 2 necros 1 warrior (myself) and 1 monk is not a very strong dps team, too slow overall in dps and uncordinated even worse. The henchies I took were the 2 warriors, 1 necro, 1 mage, 1 prot monk and myself. And we cooked em balls to the wall.

Seems necros and rangers just aren't very good in bulk in the Thirsty River mission or maybe these players just suked and didn't know how to play their characters. I really laughed at the fact I could beat the mission with what many call stupid henchies and lose 2 times in a row with socalled superior intelligence of human counterparts.

I used to take the mesmer over the necro, but, have found the necro npc is pretty darn good at keeping me in energy, and the mesmer just ends up dying too much and I don't see him doing much of anything useful. And the poor poor poor pitiful ranger npc, lol, does anyone ever take this poor girl with them? lol I think she's a good example of rangers if they don't use their chickenchit runs and pindowns and spam spirits are pretty worthless overall.

In a 3rd mission with a well balanced group, 2 warriors 2 ele's 1 pet/death necro and a lvl 11 monk (lol poor guy died so much) we did very well and defeated it first try, although everyone died but the other warrior and myself nearly every battle but the last one thank goodness. But, once again I and the monk were the only ones to bring a hard rez and since the monk died so often if I hadn't survived we'd have lost that one also.

Henchies are better than people give them credit for, heck I almost defeated Glint with henchies, but, I only tried it once. She doesn't chase you like many npc mobs and there's a safe spot in the mission, I was able to rez the henchies several times before I finally gave into just not enough dps to take her down. If I coulda just had 2 ele henchies instead of the mesmer I think we coulda done it. Wish you could really pick your henchie teams but I guess that would make them way overpowered, heh imagine 6 eles and 1 monk henchie group and 1 warrior (myself). lol I would rock everything. Or 5 eles, 1 necro (to give me energy) and 1 monk.

Lina is pretty good. Alesia is really fodder. But, if "I" can keep her alive we do rather well, the key is keeping her alive.

I've used them to goto Mineral Springs twice now to get Flourish and Shield of Judgement. The only thing that gave us trouble was that big horde of dwarves with umpteen jillion Healing Drylok (sp) Ryders and the (5) Fiery Avicara birds in Mineral Springs, I was able to string out the dwarf army and we took them out the 2nd try and the (5) Fiery Avicara birds took 2 tries as well until I got Shield of Judgement, then we just smoked them. The key to winning with henchies and really with humans as well is the "pulling technique". I use a backwards pulling method, I move backwards until I agro the closest mob then run forward like heck to string them out, then before they can reqroup take out the first couple of forward ones and then go after the healers. Using this technique keeps the warrior henchies from gaining agro many times and they run back with me and thas how we are able to defeat the missions.

If only other humans were so cordinated and organized.

SlY_DeMoN · Aug 20, 2005, 04:42 AM // 04:42

let me put it this way, this only true for WARRIOS and MONKS. if your a mesmer or a ranger etc. it's a bit harder since the only way you can get henchies to do stuff is make them follow you, which means your the in center of the action.

It is easy to use henchies, just not as easy for other classes.

Red Sonya · Aug 20, 2005, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Well now I sometimes use a bow on my warrior and play ranger and stay out of the frontal action, especially against scarabs and those nasty elementals and we still do alright. But, yes I'ma one of those W/Mo's and I have the ability to heal them as well and the funny thing is I'm most often the last one to get attacked when playing with henchies so my Balthazar's Spirit is worthless unlike when I solo and it's very useful.

I always take restore life, since the monks will usually go down first and I'm the last one to survive either by winning the battle or running far enough away the mobs stop chasing or spread themselves out in a line I can go back and defeat each one solo. Then go and rez the henchies again. I found quickly my solo build isn't near as good with a group of henchies so have dumped Balthazar's Spirit and Bonettis Defense for other damage or healing abilities. Nice to be able to take Shield of Judgement and put it on Alesia. lol

powdahound · Aug 20, 2005, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlY_DeMoN

let me put it this way, this only true for WARRIOS and MONKS. if your a mesmer or a ranger etc. it's a bit harder since the only way you can get henchies to do stuff is make them follow you, which means your the in center of the action.

It is easy to use henchies, just not as easy for other classes.

They attack targets you call... You don't have to be in the center of battle.

aB- · Aug 20, 2005, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Just wanted to point out that it is Mineral Springs, but on the subject, I agree. On my first two characters, I went through the desert in PuGs, and on my third character, I had difficulty finding a group, so attempted the mission with henchmen. I found it to be very easy, and I don't believe anyone, neither me or the henchmen, suffered a death throughout the 3 desert missions.

chaos dragoon · Aug 20, 2005, 06:53 AM // 06:53

yes hencies are superior in most cases,but they are also,IMO,not very fun to use.

SOT · Aug 20, 2005, 06:57 AM // 06:57

This thread has more typos than my birth certificate (believe me, that says something)

Makkert · Aug 20, 2005, 07:02 AM // 07:02

I think the problem is deeprooted.
everyone says the henchies listen better. and they do. So why do players listen worse?
probably because nobody agreed before entering mission who the leader/targetcaller would be. and everyone should follow that guy. If I make a party (and therefor decide to lead), I make it crystalclear to them that if they have a problem with me leading, they can bugger off. There can only be one captain in a team.

As for the rangers and necro's: i'm just exploring the necro. A good blood necro can pack some twisted armor ignoring damage. If you have 2 curse necro's..yeah i guess that would have been problematic. And a ranger can do some nifty things to if set up properly.
but both rangers and necro's are really support classes.... It takes some time before mission to talk through with your members to see what they are set up to do. But you won't get surprised with lack of dps then.

Numa Pompilius · Aug 20, 2005, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaos dragoon

yes hencies are superior in most cases

Honestly, you guys are on drugs if you think henchies are better than human players. There isn't a single quest or mission in the game that's easier with henches than humans.

Fact: henches are weaker and dumber and have lower level and fewer skills, on account of being single-classed, than human players in the same area. The ONLY thing they do is attack whatever target you're attacking, you can't split fire with a hench team. And getting a human group to grasp the concept of concentrating fire on the most dangerous opponent takes about one minute.

Of course, if you team up with some rushed nut who don't know how to use what few mismatched skills he's got, then you're in for a treat, but one semi-competent human player at the right level for the area will beat one henchman every time.

Lost · Aug 20, 2005, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

but one semi-competent human player at the right level for the area will beat one henchman every time.

The only problem is the majority of PUGs aren't even semi-competent. Three cheers for henchmen! It's more satisfying to beat something with henchmen anyways because you know YOU were the one that beat it.

Red Sonya · Aug 20, 2005, 11:46 AM // 11:46

THat may be true in your case Numa but not in most cases, since there are a lot of 12 year olds and probably less in age playing this game many are not very bright and don't know strategy or tactics and just willy nilly anything and everything, don't listen and generally screw up the mission for everyone else or several of them do it all at once.

I've played in enough groups to get a good observation of the average player and it's not as good as a henchie group (for me). The mere fact that henchies will assist you on any and every target makes the big difference. It's what I bank on and how I play with them and it works for me this way.

Of course a well experienced player will outdo a henchie, but, the problem is, there aren't that many well experienced players in every group and it takes too much time to even put one together. I personally don't feel like waiting 15 to 30 minutes or more putting a group together, so, I will continue to use henchies in most cases and so far have been successful in every mission I've used them in and this is my very first character and I've reached Fire island with them except for one mission "Thunderhead Keep" which I successfully completed the first time through by being invited to a very good group, which from other missions I tried with humans wasn't successful very often on several tries.

I'm not saying henchies are the best thing this side of Pamala Anderson in a bikini, I'm just saying for the most part on average they do a better job of cordinating and doing what you want them to than not vs most human groups out there that I have been involved with.

I could lists 10's of missions I have been involved in with humans and the missions flopped, wiped, people left, etc. etc. Things that henchies won't do. Main thing is they follow you, they don't try to be some hero and fight something 1v1 like I have seen many times with human groups and the mission fails. They also don't "rush or run" through the mission content, something else that is a big problem with human groups I am finding. Skipping through parts to get to the end faster. There's two groups of people in this game, new players and those that have completed the game, many of the new players want to see the content, the players that have completed the game want to rush the content and that's something else that takes too long to setup a group that respects each others type of play.

Old Dood · Aug 20, 2005, 12:00 PM // 12:00

I really enjoy playing in groups with mature people. People that will take their time, think things through, heal & recharge. However, that is not always available. My Guildmates are a decent lot, but they are mostly itchy younger males that want to gogogogogo all the time. When I play my Monk with them I have to put my foot down and say STOP or DIE. (Kinda like Cake or Death) When I play with my best friend (Who is also now in this new Guild) He understands that we both need to stop and think,heal,recharge. We use Teamspeak so we just converse about just about anything while waiting for our Blue & Red bars to fill up.

Now for henchmen they are good for many things. I am thankful we have them. Makes the game so much better to have something to fill the gap. When no humans are available or when I am not in the mood to put up with Human Behavior I will take henchmen along. They are my favorite when I am just farming for certain collector items that I need. I have used them in the Shiverpeaks for skill capping. They do not complain that I am taking too much time to regenerate. I can light up a smoke, stop go upstairs see Mrs Dood, etc. I have left my character in the middle of nowhere with them for hours and come back and finished what I was doing.

Henchmen have their uses.

generik · Aug 20, 2005, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Henchmen are less agonising

But I find them more "micro intensive" as well.. unlike PUGs when you can actually take things more easily (that is provided you have a good pug) and just focus on your job, with hench you pretty much have to do everything.

However human teammates that just agro everything.. bleigh, damned them to hell!

Numa Pompilius · Aug 20, 2005, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Absolutely henchmen have their uses.
I'm antisocial enough that I've played through the PvE with just henchmen (and PUGs in two missions), and enjoyed the challenge. However, playing with actual humans I can do the same missions in half the time, with half the number of players, and half the number of wipes. Just being able to sneak past monsters, separate the tank from the casters, or pull without resorting to tricks, is a godsend.

OK, yes, the people I play with are my guildies, yes they're at least semi-decent, and yes we use Ventrilo for communication, but I wouldn't say they're outstanding players. I've played PUGs too, and my main complaint have been with leet-omg-im-so-uber people (each mission is a RACE, it must finish in under ten minutes or 'ur n00bs').

I don't mind newbies, I *like* newbies, but spare me getting a single uber-leet PvP'er in the group.

Jhyphi · Aug 20, 2005, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Take the original poster for example. He may think that he's good but the fact that he doesn't even know what necros and rangers are capable of shows what you have to put up with in groups with real people.

Every class can be very well played by good ppl. I do agree, the mesmer, necro, and ranger henchies are the worst ones. There's a reason for that. Those 3 classes require the most thinking and timing with which AI isn't quite up to at least in the case of these henchies.

The warrior, ele, healer henchies are good b/c there are some things that their classes can do which can be programmed with relatively simpler tasks. Although I will say the healer henchies have some of the best timing of any monks. Also doesn't fail to notice someone is low in health.

"lol I think she's a good example of rangers if they don't use their chickenchit runs and pindowns and spam spirits are pretty worthless overall."

That line alone totally throws out any slight respect he could've gained. The OP "forgets(or just doesn't know)" to mention that the ranger is an excellent interrupter and disruptor. He dismisses a class he doesn't know enough about and neglects to mention some of the strengths it has. Different classes have different strengths and each class also has depth to it.

KamikazeChicken · Aug 20, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Hench are the best party members for questing and most missions. From Rangers to Warriors, they're superior to PUGs in every way. How many people have issues finishing Hell's Precipice? Here's something that might motivate you beyond the use of idiot people: ~Spoiler?~

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...murf/gw062.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...murf/gw064.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...murf/gw065.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...murf/gw068.jpg

Kai Nui · Aug 20, 2005, 02:58 PM // 14:58

I tried and tried to do Thunderhead Keep, but we kept failing. I did it FIRST time with henchies and did bonus there aswell because I was feeling confident since they were so good. Seriously, after the henchies get to level 20 and you can have 8 of them they're really good. I usually go with me and 1-2 friends and all the rest henchies. Lina, Alesia, Little Thom, and Stefan are the best (er whatever their names are devona and mhenlo) and then NOT Eve, she stinks and also not dunham. Orion is good though. I never take archer if I'm going alone.

Ashraven · Aug 20, 2005, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

let me put it this way, this only true for WARRIOS and MONKS. if your a mesmer or a ranger etc. it's a bit harder since the only way you can get henchies to do stuff is make them follow you, which means your the in center of the action.

This is very true. It can depend on your primary, especially with Thirsty River. When I completed Thirsty, we had two rangers (I was one of them), 2 warriors, 1 monk and Lina. I'm not sure what the OP mean by "bulk", but having more than one ranger in a Thirsty River mission is not a liability. Against the hardest group, if it wasn't for the Rangers totally distrupting the Monk (i also had DoT skills), while the tanks took care of the healer boss, I don't think we would have succeeded.

Teufel Eldritch · Aug 20, 2005, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Saw this on another GW forum...

Quote:

3 difficulty levels in GW

1) Insanely Hard - PUG groups
2) Normal - Henchies
3) Insanely Easy - Guild groups

Truth.